“People need to take a more honest and realistic approach with themselves before they pursue higher education in any form.”

Jacob Green, 26, is in his second year at Carroll University in Waukesha, Wis., studying animal behavior and sciences. He is a non-traditional student, because he is part-time and Carroll University is the third institution of higher education he has attended since graduating in 2016 from Muskego High School. Jacob is my older brother. We both started college during our early twenties, which also differs from the norm of starting at 18. Jacob hasn’t had a linear path during his college years, but he remains committed to his studies and still finds value in pursuing higher education.

Q-Sonya Green: What schooling did you complete before you attended Carroll?

A-Jacob Green: I graduated from Muskego High School in 2016, and then I immediately went to college at Milwaukee Area Technical College for about two years, where I studied 2-D animation. Then, I dropped out of that. I knew I wanted to go back in a few years, but I wasn’t sure about what to go back for. I pulled the trigger and went to University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee at Waukesha to get some gen eds out of the way, and that was about for a year.

Q: I’m sure you’ve heard about the current doubts circulating around higher education. About the whole cost vs. benefit discussion surrounding colleges in general, both public and private, regarding the issue of colleges having such high costs and yet a lot of graduates aren’t finding jobs in their chosen careers. What do you have to say this about topic? What thoughts would you add to it?

A: College isn’t for everyone. I mean, at my high school, it was like, “Oh, you’re gonna graduate, and you’re going to get accepted in to UW-Madison, and if you don’t get into UW-Madison, what are you even doing with your life?,” I don’t like that pressure that society gives, like “Oh you have to go to college in order to be successful.” I don’t agree with that. I do think it depends on what you want to do. And then you also have to make this really critical decision that not only involves a lot of time and energy, but also a lot of money. And for most people, they don’t have the freedom to choose to go to whatever college they want to, simply because it’s too expensive. I do feel like people need to take a more honest and realistic approach with themselves before they pursue higher education in any form. What are your goals? Do you want a job that will consume most of your time, like being an on-call doctor? Do you want to read a lot? What are your true interests?

Q: Do you think there’s more to college besides just attending it in order to get a good-paying job? Is there more value besides it just being a step to higher pay?

A: There’s way more to college than just getting a higher paying job. You make connections with your teachers and your peers. You make friends. A lot of people meet their significant other in college settings. You learn a lot of self-discipline and responsibility. Again, I’m not saying college is for everyone. But for me personally, I think it’s been very beneficial for the connections I’ve made and the experiences that I’ve had so far. I’ve gained invaluable skills.

Q: What would you say has been the biggest difference in your growth between pre-college and during college?

A: Well, I’ve been through many evolutions throughout my time so far. Through high school and even at times at MATC, I feel like I didn’t take my responsibilities seriously. And now, I feel like I take things more seriously, and I don’t think that’s necessarily because I’m going to Carroll now. I was just taking school for granted. I don’t feel that you have to take high school seriously anyway, I’m not saying that. But I think it’s because I’m more self-assured in what I want for myself now. I’m passionate about what I’m doing and what I want. I didn’t have that before in my prior educational experiences. You also can form closer relationships with your professors than you did in high school, because now you get treated like an adult as well. School feels so much better when you finally get treated like an adult.

Q: Have you ever had doubts about your college education so far?

A: Oh yeah! I went to MATC for 2-D animation, and then I dropped out not only because I wanted to work more, but I realized that animation wasn’t what I wanted to do with my life. I’m fine with my choice now, and sometimes I feel like “Man, I wish I would have gone to Carroll right away,” but I wouldn’t have known then what I know now. When I dropped out, I knew I wanted to go back eventually, I just didn’t know what for. I didn’t have a direction. Now, I feel like I have direction in life and I have a lot of good things going for me. I totally understand going back for a different degree. I have multiple friends doing that right now. I feel lucky that I found something that I really like and care about, and am passionate about learning more in the field of animal sciences. I know that’s not the case for everyone though. College is a lot of second-guessing yourself.

Q: Do you think that learning everything from various online resources replaces going to an actual accredited higher institution of learning? I think they call it YouTube Academy? Do you think that’s a credible way to receive an education?

A: They do call it YouTube Academy, yeah. I think they can be incredibly effective and it’s great that these resources are free, but it doesn’t take the place of having a professional degree. I’ve been taking guitar lessons since I was about 9 years old, and that’s for about 17 years now. When you’re learning something in a professional setting, you get personalized feedback. Your teacher knows you personally and can show you exactly what you need to work on, what you’re doing well, and you can bounce off new ideas and be creative with how you approach things. When you belong to something and take lessons or go to classes to learn more about things, it gives you more of a sense of responsibility for your learning. If I had just learned guitar by myself through following YouTube videos, I wouldn’t have stuck with it for as long as I have. My teacher gave me a drive to improve. 

A way that’s really effective at getting better at something is to surround yourself with people who are better than you at whatever skill you’re trying to learn. They can be constructive and legitimately helpful for you. Of course there are scenarios with jerks who think that they will always be better than you no matter what, but in many cases, including my relationship with my guitar teacher, we just want to help each other out. We love playing guitar, and it’s even better when we do it together. Learning things without having someone to guide you doesn’t work as well. You both get better through an osmosis-like process when you help another person learn a skill. 

Q: How do you feel about the future of higher education? Where do you think it’s headed?

A: At least in the United States, we really need to lower the cost of college. Too many people go into college in search of a degree in order to better their life and future and are left with a crushing amount of debt, and a lot of uncertainty. And I don’t feel that’s fair. Yeah, I know life’s not fair, but if you look at other countries, they don’t seem to struggle with access  to and completion of higher education like the United States does. We have some of the best teachers and best colleges in the world, but too many people can’t access that because they don’t have the money to pay their loans back if they went. If we want to foster the growth of the economy and our creativity as a society, we need to help people get past the economic hinder of going to college.

Q: Not only the money, but I also want to mention that college is also incredibly time-consuming besides the financial aspect. I’m at 15 credits and in the Honors College, and I feel so burnt out this semester. I can’t imagine this for someone who is a caregiver, or who needs to work more than 20 hours a week to pay their bills. There’s a certain lifestyle you need in order to make college work in a healthy way for your lifestyle, and too many people can’t access that either.

Q: So there is value in higher education? You say you would agree with that?

A: Yes, but I don’t think it’s a guaranteed value, at least financially. However, for personal values such as building responsibility, that value is absolutely still there. I would absolutely say there is still value in higher education. You don’t need to go to college in order to be successful, though. There are jobs where you definitely need a degree, but there are also many others where you can still get a good paycheck and not need to go to school for at least 4 years.

Q: Do you think that not going to college makes you a bad person?

A: No, absolutely not. You may make less money, but your life isn’t any worse because you didn’t go to college. Your success isn’t a measure of your worth. Too many people still believe that. Getting a higher education doesn’t make you a good person, necessarily. That’s a ridiculous thought process to believe in.